Impeachment now certain

smr wrote:Why the Impeachment will ultimately fail?

We have the transcript of phone call. The United States has a Treaty with Ukraine. That treaty supersedes US Law. This treaty knocks out Article 1 of the Impeachment articles because Treaty obligations clear Trump. Two, Article 2 is probably going to thrown out by the courts. Why? America has 3 branches of Government. When the Executive and the Legislative Branches have disputes. The Judicial Branch resolves the disputes. So Article 2 of the Impeachment will be thrown out by the courts. The Courts will not cut their own throats. The House decided to ignore the Courts while trying to get Trump. Ultimately, the Courts will throw the 2nd Article of Impeachment.

1) what does the treaty have to do with it?
2) Congress' power to subpoena in an impeachment inquiry was already ruled upon in US vs Nixon. Do you think they are required to accept relitigating everything until the clock runs out? It might be a different matter if the judiciary fast-tracked rulings on the matter, but it hasn't. Furthermore, should the Court rule against Congress' power to impeach, it will effectively neuter its ability to carry out an impeachment inquiry - which is a power the Constitution assigns solely to the House.

Wow smr, so much wrong.

You got your first point backwards. The US Constitution beats a treaty, as it's made under the rules provided by that Constitution.
There might be an arguement if you're trying to amend the Constitution.

One of the earliest SCOTUS rulings is that Congresses power to investigate is both fundamental and constitutional.

SCOTUS wont touch that with a barge pole.

We will see if I am proven right or wrong Annachie. This is the first time in history a President has articles of Impeachment voted against him and no crime was specified in the articles. These articles of Impeachment are so weak . So what was the plan of Demoncrats or did they just want to smear Trump and the Republicans. Well if that is the case, the plan backfired. Trump's approval ratings continue to go up and he has broken fundraising records since the Demoncrats have started this Impeachment Process.

Now, Pelosi will not send over the Articles of Impeachment? I wonder why?

Was not this issue critical to National Security according to Demoncrats?

Their is a treaty between the US and Ukraine. This articles allows for cooperation between America and Ukraine on corruption. So reread the transcript and apply the treaty to the transcript. Now you know why they dropped all those charges that would have put Trump out of office. The Demoncrats planted a trap that Trump knew about. So Trump prepared his defenses and then set off the trap at his time and opportunity of choosing.

Why did the 1st whistler blower not testify?

Why did the 2nd whistler blower not testify?

What blew up the Demoncrats case for Impeachment? The release of the Transcript?

Right now, America is in a political civil war. The Question is does this turn into a real hot civil war with fighting on both sides?

Annachie wrote:Wow smr, so much wrong.

You got your first point backwards. The US Constitution beats a treaty, as it's made under the rules provided by that Constitution.
There might be an arguement if you're trying to amend the Constitution.

One of the earliest SCOTUS rulings is that Congresses power to investigate is both fundamental and constitutional.

SCOTUS wont touch that with a barge pole.

smr wrote: Now, Pelosi will not send over the Articles of Impeachment? I wonder why?

Because:
a) She wants some assurances the Senate will actually try the articles and not conspire with Trump to whitewash the allegations.

b) she's suckering GOP Senators into providing more soundbites about plans to break their oaths once the Impeachment trial is held.

The main risk she faces at this point is that the White House and GOP reverse course and allow witnesses that then provide exculpatory testimony. Of course, if anyone thought that likely, they'd have let them testify already.

noblehunter wrote:

smr wrote: Now, Pelosi will not send over the Articles of Impeachment? I wonder why?

Because:
a) She wants some assurances the Senate will actually try the articles and not conspire with Trump to whitewash the allegations.

b) she's suckering GOP Senators into providing more soundbites about plans to break their oaths once the Impeachment trial is held.

The main risk she faces at this point is that the White House and GOP reverse course and allow witnesses that then provide exculpatory testimony. Of course, if anyone thought that likely, they'd have let them testify already.

The key witness has just announced that he will defy any subpoena:

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story ... 759398001/

I remain astonished that Trump is being persecuted for encouraging a foreign government to investigate a US citizen who abused his influence (as Vice President) to extort money from a foreign government as a preecondition for financial aid.

Dilandu must be laughing their ass off.

There is no legitimate reason to have him appear.

Annachie:

So finding out the truth is not important only getting Trump by hook or crook is important. Let's put this through the Annachie 2000 Translator. Orange man bad...kill Orangeman...Kill his Supporters.

Annachie appears extremely intelligent, logical, and rational except when it comes to Trump. Then this individual turns into a Zombie and loses his freaking mind. Remind me again what law has Trump broken? I know that is why Trump is the 1st President ever to have an article of Impeachment voted and passed with "No Criminal Charges." That is a 1st in American History!

Where are the original whistle blowers? Hiding because their scared of being strung up from the highest tree in the land and hung.

December 27: Hunter Biden made a 146 Million dollars in a year from Ukraine. This coming from his court records and the Judge determing how much money he has to pay in child support. I wonder why he got all this money...could it be because his name is .....Biden.

smr wrote:Annachie:

So finding out the truth is not important only getting Trump by hook or crook is important. Let's put this through the Annachie 2000 Translator. Orange man bad...kill Orangeman...Kill his Supporters.

Annachie appears extremely intelligent, logical, and rational except when it comes to Trump. Then this individual turns into a Zombie and loses his freaking mind. Remind me again what law has Trump broken? I know that is why Trump is the 1st President ever to have an article of Impeachment voted and passed with "No Criminal Charges." That is a 1st in American History!

Where are the original whistle blowers? Hiding because their scared of being strung up from the highest tree in the land and hung.

December 27: Hunter Biden made a 146 Million dollars in a year from Ukraine. This coming from his court records and the Judge determing how much money he has to pay in child support. I wonder why he got all this money...could it be because his name is .....Biden.

smr, please elaborate on what Biden did or didn't do that has any bearing at all on what Trump did or didn't do which brought on the impeachment?

And what it is with conservative republicans these days, all I hear is basically "kill the infidels!" in one form or another. Don't have any facts? Threaten with deadly violence instead! The word fanatics and Jihad come to mind.

William F. Buckley Jr is probably overjoyed because of the political progress the conservatives have done since the 50's. You do know what he wrote in his book "God and Men at Yale", right?

You do seem to have taken his argument to heart anyway, and that was that it was imperative to stop arguing based on facts, and simply promote a "Conservative" view of the world by whatever means necessary because trying to reach the truth by constructing arguments out of facts; the premise of the enlightenment, was a worse superstition than the dark age traditions the enlightenment tried to stamp out. All this because he couldn't accept that people actually voted for liberal consensus which he thought was against "God's laws". And his solution as described above was to argue that the voters should be lied to, that anything that was inconvenient from a conservative standpoint should be lied about. And here we are...

smr wrote:Annachie:

So finding out the truth is not important only getting Trump by hook or crook is important. Let's put this through the Annachie 2000 Translator. Orange man bad

Well, yes Orange man is bad. From his many, many cases of financial irregularities, to his something like 20 sexual assault accusations (Including against children), to his decades long friendship with multiple pedophiles, any rational person would deduce that Trump is a bad man.

Of course, then there's the incestuous comments about his (then underage) daughter, the admission of actual sexual assaults, the whole screwing around on multiple wives. From these alone a sane person would deduce that Trump is a bad man.

Of course, since he became President there's the blatant corruption, spreading of false hoods, attacking people in the crudest manor for merely disagreeing with him, the whole disgracing of the USA on the world stage. From these alone any sane person would deduce that Trump is a bad man.

Then there are the people he's hired to top jobs in the WH, or he hired for his election campaign. 27 indictments from the Mueller investigation alone, including the recomendation that trump himself should have been indicted over it but DOJ policy says he can't be. Pretty good case for Trump being a bad man in just that.

Of course, he was indicted, as individual one.

Of course, then there's the charity he ripped off. For children with cancer.
He ripped of a charity for children with cancer! Fair notice. One month ago one of my teenage daughters was diagnosed with cancer.
A sane person would deduce that Trump is a bad man. As a parent of a child cancer sufferer, Trump is a cunt. There's no other description. He is a grade A, pure adulterous cunt.

...kill Orangeman...Kill his Supporters.

No. take to trial. That's the difference between us, and is what makes me a screaming liberal in US terms. (I'm not, but he' US terms) Trial. Not lynching. It's the rabbit conservative, the kool-aid drinkers that Trump loves so much and that love him, that call for ignoring due process, or evidence, or actual crimes.

Annachie appears extremely intelligent, logical, and rational except when it comes to Trump. Then this individual turns into a Zombie and loses his freaking mind.

Nope. I mere;y looked at the evidence and decided that this bad man needs to be tried properly for his aparent crimes.

Remind me again what law has Trump broken?

US Constitution: Article 1, section 2 clause 5. That would be the obstruction of congress.

US Constitution: Article 2 Section 4. That would be the corruption.

Where are the original whistle blowers? Hiding because their scared of being strung up from the highest tree in the land and hung.

Probably, yes. Which is why their identity gets protected.
Besides, they are not needed. They are the anonymous tip that Fly calls in on his neighbour's growing dope. If the police raid and find a dope plantation, they don't need to know who rang in the tip, do they?

December 27: Hunter Biden made a 146 Million dollars in a year from Ukraine. This coming from his court records and the Judge determing how much money he has to pay in child support. I wonder why he got all this money...could it be because his name is .....Biden.

You might want to back that up smr, as it appears to be complete bullshit. But hey, your conspiricy-fu might be better than my google-fu.

smr wrote: Now, Pelosi will not send over the Articles of Impeachment? I wonder why?

She wants some assurance it won't turn into a show exoneration.

Was not this issue critical to National Security according to Demoncrats?

Cite? As I recall the argument was that the holding up the aid was an issue of national security, not the impeachment itself. Since the administration released the aid when the affair came to light, there's no pressing national security issue.

Furthermore, if there was, it makes it even more imperative to insist the trial be carried out properly.

Their is a treaty between the US and Ukraine. This articles allows for cooperation between America and Ukraine on corruption. So reread the transcript and apply the treaty to the transcript. Now you know why they dropped all those charges that would have put Trump out of office. The Demoncrats planted a trap that Trump knew about. So Trump prepared his defenses and then set off the trap at his time and opportunity of choosing.

Even if the treaty does say that (which I don't take for a given but will assume for the sake of argument) that doesn't mean Trump can legitimize any action by calling it a fight against corruption. Testimony indicates Trump was interested only in the fact of an investigation, and specifically ensuring it was done publicly while tying the Bidens to it. He was utterly uninterested in the matter until about the time Biden announced his candidacy, nor is there any indication AFAIK he was or is interested in any other aspects or issues of corruption in the Ukraine (frankly, the way Trump comes off talking about corruption is like he heard that it's a bad thing so he'll argue he's fighting against it but doesn't actually comprehend what it is).
Furthermore, there is no evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the Bidens in the first place; the investigation against Burisma had been closed by the time the US and the EU demanded Shokin's removal and Hunter Biden wasn't even working for the company at the time of the investigated issues.

Why did the 1st whistler blower not testify?

Why did the 2nd whistler blower not testify?

Why should they testify? What information do you think they has to add?

TFLYTSNBN wrote:The key witness has just announced that he will defy any subpoena:

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story ... 759398001/

Well, it's too bad the Trump Administration, backed by the GOP, has established you can ignore Congressional subpoenas then, ins't it.

And in what way is Biden a key witness? When you come down to it, Biden's actions are not really relevant at all - Trump is the one on trial here, not him. Had Trump gone through channels via the DOJ, FBI and State Department, rather than trying to bypass those agencies with private citizens, and had he not given every indication he was trying to get the investigation opened as a political gambit, then you might have a leg to stand on. As it is...

Imagine I'm a police officer who really hates you and is convinced you're selling drugs. I break into your house and plant drugs inside. I'm caught and stand trial, and then it turns out that you really are selling drugs. That doesn't in any way absolve me of my crimes and if my defense attorney asked you to testify, it would probably be disallowed on grounds of relevance.

And in any event, Biden's actions would be irrelevant to the second article of impeachment.

The only reason the GOP want Biden as a witness is to muddy the waters. And, judging by his later clarifying statements, I assume he would comply with a subpoena if a court ruled he should.

I remain astonished that Trump is being persecuted for encouraging a foreign government to investigate a US citizen who abused his influence (as Vice President) to extort money from a foreign government as a preecondition for financial aid.

Dilandu must be laughing their ass off.

Where the hell did you pull that from all of a sudden?

smr wrote:Annachie:

So finding out the truth is not important only getting Trump by hook or crook is important. Let's put this through the Annachie 2000 Translator. Orange man bad...kill Orangeman...Kill his Supporters.

Once again, Trump is the one on trial here, not anyone else. See my reply above.

Annachie appears extremely intelligent, logical, and rational except when it comes to Trump. Then this individual turns into a Zombie and loses his freaking mind. Remind me again what law has Trump broken? I know that is why Trump is the 1st President ever to have an article of Impeachment voted and passed with "No Criminal Charges." That is a 1st in American History!

For one thing, one of the charges includes bribery, which is a . Furthermore, "high crimes and misdemeanors" is not limited to actual crimes. the "high" part doesn't refer to serious crimes; it includes things which are only crimes when they're done by the "high", that is public officials, such as abuse of office or plain incompetence (the term comes from Emglish law at the time, and there's a case where someone was found guilty under that clause for failing to moor a boat properly).

Where are the original whistle blowers? Hiding because their scared of being strung up from the highest tree in the land and hung.

Given that Trump went "who will rid me on this burdensome priest" on the first whistleblower and has now apparently publicly exposed him, it wouldn't be an unfounded fear.

December 27: Hunter Biden made a 146 Million dollars in a year from Ukraine. This coming from his court records and the Judge determining how much money he has to pay in child support. I wonder why he got all this money...could it be because his name is .....Biden.

Which is not illegal and, since he's not a government official, that's the standard he's held to. And it would be rich for this particular administration and its supporters to come out against nepotism.

Annachie wrote:He ripped of a charity for children with cancer! Fair notice. One month ago one of my teenage daughters was diagnosed with cancer.

May she heal quickly and fully.