Did the MBS corner the market on trade?

cthia wrote:Since certain ones of those damn DBs were allowed to run free, spy, and even participate in military operations.

Eh.

At Basilisk in On Basilisk Station - Manticore & Haven were not yet at war.
The one carrying the message to 2nd Fleet in War of Honor -
not Haven-flagged, and also during a cease-fire
The one taking Mike home with Pritchart's peace offer in At All Costs - wasn't spying or participating in military operations

Can't think of any other Havenite DBs in Manticoran space of consequence.

Brigade XO wrote:Taking a nutral's diplomatic traffic ,pouch/Couriers, diplomats, embassy/consulate locaton is a major breach of international (or in our case interstellar) law. It can lead to war, it certainly will be a major incedent.

I seem to recall we last saw the SEM's Ambassador watching the mob in the street in New Chicago from some high numbered floor in the Beowulf Embasy. Don't think he is mentioned again and certainly not that he was killed or taken as some sort of hostage. On the other hand, we have the example of the attack on the US Embassy in Iran by the "student guards" and the "Government" of Iran claimed to 1) not be invovled and 2) had no way to get the staff out of the "protestors" hands and return them to the US. So that is possible way to get things you think you need or suspect is there.
Or some pirate siezes a Consular DB and may or may not admit to it- the only real reason to admit to it at least say they aquired the people- is to get a ransom for "finding them" and organizing a safe return for a "fee". Said pirate would have to be awfully greedy because they would have no future cover and it was just contract work for a 3rd party then both the injured party and the 3rd party is still going to be looking for them.
Just saying. It's a dangerous business, commerce raiding.

Certainly, but I'm not suggesting seizing run-of-the-mill DBs, which may or may not enjoy diplomatic immunity. I'm talking about the common place seizure of an enemy's assets during wartime. In the HV, that would mean all DBs carrying banking data and currencies back to the enemy. I'm not so certain they would enjoy the same diplomatic immunity.

Consider that the US government has a broad range of powers that can be enacted during time of war. War Powers. Keep in mind that during WWI the US confiscated half a billion dollars in private property. The mission is to ensure local finances do not go toward the support of the enemy.

See this article regarding National Emergency and Private Property Rights.

In time of war, the US government has the power to seize all private gold leaving you with only $100 worth of your hard earned, long assembled gold portfolio. All foreign assets are certainly subject to the same criteria. That would be include, and historically has, the assets of Japanese and German people and businesses operating in the US.

****** *

drothgery wrote:

cthia wrote:Since certain ones of those damn DBs were allowed to run free, spy, and even participate in military operations.

Eh.

At Basilisk in On Basilisk Station - Manticore & Haven were not yet at war.
The one carrying the message to 2nd Fleet in War of Honor -
not Haven-flagged, and also during a cease-fire
The one taking Mike home with Pritchart's peace offer in At All Costs - wasn't spying or participating in military operations

Can't think of any other Havenite DBs in Manticoran space of consequence.

I thought it was obvious that I was referring to the SLN DB which operated in Manty space and was tasked with summoning Tsang. In fact, there was a comment made which made me think it was a common textbook tactic.

Also consider that even though the contestants were not yet at war in OBS, Honor took measures to disable the DB instead of seizing it. She simply split hairs. This is war, sue me later.

Besides, as I lightheartedly mentioned somewhere before, Honor had the qualifications to drive like a bat-out-of-hell. LOL

cthia wrote:Since certain ones of those damn DBs were allowed to run free, spy, and even participate in military operations.

drothgery wrote:Eh.

At Basilisk in On Basilisk Station - Manticore & Haven were not yet at war.
The one carrying the message to 2nd Fleet in War of Honor -
not Haven-flagged, and also during a cease-fire
The one taking Mike home with Pritchart's peace offer in At All Costs - wasn't spying or participating in military operations

Can't think of any other Havenite DBs in Manticoran space of consequence.

cthia wrote:I thought it was obvious that I was referring to the SLN DB which operated in Manty space and was tasked with summoning Tsang. In fact, there was a comment made which made me think it was a common textbook tactic.

Also consider that even though the contestants were not yet at war in OBS, Honor took measures to disable the DB instead of seizing it. She simply split hairs. This is war, sue me later.

Besides, as I lightheartedly mentioned somewhere before, Honor had the qualifications to drive like a bat-out-of-hell. LOL

The DB during the Solarian attack on Manticore was deliberately allowed to to use the wormhole; the Manticoran authorities could have held it if they wanted, but the resulting fleet confrontation near Beowulf was desired.

Brigade XO wrote:Taking a nutral's diplomatic traffic ,pouch/Couriers, diplomats, embassy/consulate locaton is a major breach of international (or in our case interstellar) law. It can lead to war, it certainly will be a major incedent.

I seem to recall we last saw the SEM's Ambassador watching the mob in the street in New Chicago from some high numbered floor in the Beowulf Embasy. Don't think he is mentioned again and certainly not that he was killed or taken as some sort of hostage.
(SNIP!)

Ambassador Carmichael is mentioned in the epilogue chapter of _Uncompromising Honor_ as the new Foreign Secretary (to replace Langtry who was killed when Beowulf Alpha was blown up).

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:Since certain ones of those damn DBs were allowed to run free, spy, and even participate in military operations.

drothgery wrote:Eh.

At Basilisk in On Basilisk Station - Manticore & Haven were not yet at war.
The one carrying the message to 2nd Fleet in War of Honor -
not Haven-flagged, and also during a cease-fire
The one taking Mike home with Pritchart's peace offer in At All Costs - wasn't spying or participating in military operations

Can't think of any other Havenite DBs in Manticoran space of consequence.

cthia wrote:I thought it was obvious that I was referring to the SLN DB which operated in Manty space and was tasked with summoning Tsang. In fact, there was a comment made which made me think it was a common textbook tactic.

Also consider that even though the contestants were not yet at war in OBS, Honor took measures to disable the DB instead of seizing it. She simply split hairs. This is war, sue me later.

Besides, as I lightheartedly mentioned somewhere before, Honor had the qualifications to drive like a bat-out-of-hell. LOL

The DB during the Solarian attack on Manticore was deliberately allowed to to use the wormhole; the Manticoran authorities could have held it if they wanted, but the resulting fleet confrontation near Beowulf was desired.

Yea, we already went a round or two on the insanity of not seizing THAT particular Dispatch Boat. But that was Beowulf's silly decision. She was feeling rather cocky while squeezing the muscles of her new, much younger beau. That two-timing Beobitch.

Besides, as I've already stated, apparently it is a common textbook tactic to utilize normally innocent DBs to do the dirty.

How fast are DBs anyway? Can they be run down by most navies?

Can a DB be chased down?

depends who is doing the chasing and who owns the DB.

generally a DB is small, about as small as you can squease impellers, military compensator, warshaki sails and Hyper Generator into, generally it is about 70 Ktons. top speed using non GA compensator probably no more then 550Gs, more probably more like 530Gs.

before the new compensators, only destroyers or light cruisers stood any chance and even then only if the geometry was right.

nowadays (1920PD) a non GA DB would fail to outrun a GA battlecruiser (Artermis class can do 675Gs) let alone a destroyer or LAC. Heck a SD(P) could almost mange it! (Invictus is 560Gs max accel).

so a non GA dispatch boat can not escape unless the GA force has nothing but SDs.

a GA DB could outrun in normal space anything that isn't a GA LAC.

Dauntless wrote:Can a DB be chased down?

depends who is doing the chasing and who owns the DB.

generally a DB is small, about as small as you can squease impellers, military compensator, warshaki sails and Hyper Generator into, generally it is about 70 Ktons. top speed using non GA compensator probably no more then 550Gs, more probably more like 530Gs.

Good estimate on the acceleration; but heavy on the mass. Janye's Haven Navy book lists a Facteur-class dispatch boat of 38,000, at 535.7 gees.

A hypothetical 70kton DB (which would be the size of an 1850s destroyer!!!) would be down to about 524 gees.

I was sure I'd read something that put mass near the 70K range.

clearly not.

thanks for the info from Jayne's, which is not a book I have.

[quote="cthia"]
Certainly, but I'm not suggesting seizing run-of-the-mill DBs, which may or may not enjoy diplomatic immunity. I'm talking about the common place seizure of an enemy's assets during wartime. In the HV, that would mean all DBs carrying banking data and currencies back to the enemy. I'm not so certain they would enjoy the same diplomatic immunity.

Consider that the US government has a broad range of powers that can be enacted during time of war. War Powers. Keep in mind that during WWI the US confiscated half a billion dollars in private property. The mission is to ensure local finances do not go toward the support of the enemy.

See this article regarding National Emergency and Private Property Rights.

In time of war, the US government has the power to seize all private gold leaving you with only $100 worth of your hard earned, long assembled gold portfolio. All foreign assets are certainly subject to the same criteria. That would be include, and historically has, the assets of Japanese and German people and businesses operating in the US.

****** *



Even during WWI, the government put into escrow royalty payments due to Mauser because the Springfield rifle violated some of Mauser's US patents. Mauser had taken the government to court before the war, and been awarded royalties. Which the government paid, at least until the patents expired.

cthia wrote:Also consider that even though the contestants were not yet at war in OBS, Honor took measures to disable the DB instead of seizing it. She simply split hairs. This is war, sue me later.

Honor was! That gave us a full book as a consequence, not to mention an SD ship class and a statue outside the Council of Steadholders.

Anyway, whether one can seize and search a D.B. depends on whether the "D" stands simply for "dispatch" or "diplomatic." A regular dispatch boat can be carrying a diplomatic pouch (which can be of any size), but the rest of the contents of the boat may not be diplomatic in nature and thus subject to legal search by the competent authorities. Or, conversely, the entire ship can have diplomatic immunity.

In the latter case, a diplomatic ship is sovereign territory of the nation it's flagged to. Searching it would be a violation of diplomatic norms, violation of territory, and, as others have said, could be an act of war.

Is banking data carried aboard diplomatic ships or inside diplomatic pouches? I suppose it happens from time to time, especially for black ops like the Peeps paying off people in Manticore or in the League. But I'm guessing the sheer volume of banking and financial data means the vast majority of which isn't afforded diplomatic immunity. It's hard to justify it even as an excuse.