What happens to all that debris?

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:At leash I understand what happened a bit better now. Thank you tlb. I'm firing my secretary. Wait, that's me. Darnit.

Don't fire your secretary yet, because I cannot prove my statement (since I do not have UH in a searchable format). If I am wrong, then it is in orbit around Ganymede.

But no, it is not an Eridani Edict if wreckage plunges onto a moon (or a planet) as RFC made clear when describing the efforts the Malign made to not directly hit any planet with their weapons in Oyster Bay; while not caring at all, if wreckage did so.

cthia wrote:

tlb wrote:You say that as though you do not realize that Ganymede is an large moon of Jupiter and the space station is built on its surface.

Well hallelujah! Clarification!

No, tlb, I didn't realize it. Does it clearly state that in the text? Of course I know that Jupiter has a moon of the same name. And the space station is Ganymede I. Located, I thought, in orbit around it. This is what I found in the drunken Wiki ...

Ganymede I was a space station owned and operated by Technodyne Industries of Yildun.

Situated near Ganymede and Naval Station Ganymede of the Solarian League Navy in the Sol System, the station employed one hundred and forty thousand roboticists, cyberneticists, nanocists, and construction workers without counting the large research and development component that transstellar maintained on-site.

At any rate, doesn't space station imply... in space? On the moon isn't a space station. That is a moon station / base. And isn't that an Eridani Edict if wreckage plunders into the moon where civilians live?

At leash I understand what happened a bit better now. Thank you tlb. I'm firing my secretary. Wait, that's me. Darnit.

Uncompromising Honor wrote:Naval Station Ganymede
Ganymede Orbit
Sol System
Solarian League

<SNIP>
Ganymede’s smaller companion, Europa, with an orbital period only half as great, sped past between his current perch and Jupiter, and Io, the innermost of the four Galilean moons had just come over the gas giant’s flank. The galaxy of constructs orbiting both Ganymede and Jupiter glittered in the reflected light of the planet, and he drew a deep breath and turned from the panorama.

munroburton wrote:The Eridani Edict doesn't do anything for Ganymede. The entire moon is a wholly legitimate military-industrial target. A Death Star could blow that moon away and it technically wouldn't be a war crime but merely an act of war.

I will concede that she did, in fact, experience her very own "I am out of control" moment with the heavy cruisers, where she wouldn't have aborted the launch without Mercedes' intervention.
-snip-
As far as the instructions and the warning she gives the cruiser squadron after they surrender, every point of it is absolutely covered by the Deneb Accords. The same is true of the ultimatum she gives the commander of Ganymede Naval Station. At no time — except, arguably, for the delay of the self-destruct order on her initial missile salvo — does Honor Harrington do a single thing which violates even the spirit of the Deneb Accords or the Eridani Edict.

munroburton wrote:
"Naval Station Ganymede" isn't just a space station. It seems to be the entire local area, from the moonbases where they mine the interior water, up to Ganymede I, Able One and the other platforms in orbit.

Inspired by these, I would say: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_station

The jurisdiction of NSG may even extend to some of the infrastructure around Jupiter, reflecting the centuries-long bloating(and overreaching) of the SLN.

Uncompromising Honor wrote:Naval Station Ganymede
Ganymede Orbit
Sol System
Solarian League

<SNIP>
Ganymede’s smaller companion, Europa, with an orbital period only half as great, sped past between his current perch and Jupiter, and Io, the innermost of the four Galilean moons had just come over the gas giant’s flank. The galaxy of constructs orbiting both Ganymede and Jupiter glittered in the reflected light of the planet, and he drew a deep breath and turned from the panorama.

The Eridani Edict doesn't do anything for Ganymede. The entire moon is a wholly legitimate military-industrial target. A Death Star could blow that moon away and it technically wouldn't be a war crime but merely an act of war.

tlb wrote:Since I may have damaged my credibility,

cthia wrote:Shouldn't a reserve of 10,000 or more ships be more valuable than the space station? Yet it seems the entire reserve were sitting ducks without any protection at all.

they would do their best to avoid the Sollies errors. A (partial) catalog of those errors would include:

(1) They simply hadn't done routine maintenance, hadn't cycled ships in and out of reserve status, and had made no attempt to keep onboard systems current.

(2) The ships of the Solarian Reserve Fleet had not been designed with the expectation that technology would be changing significantly. As a consequence, no one worried about "growth space" for new systems or modular installations which could be (relatively) quickly changed out for modern hardware. Replacing and updating would have required a huge investment in yard time to rip out and obsolete systems and then somehow shoehorn in more modern ones.

(3) The ships of the Reserve had old-style inertial compensators, which might have been changed out . . . assuming that the SLN had possessed newer and more efficient compensators to change out. It didn't.

(4) The SLN had never actually expected to need the Reserve. It was a sort of strategic security blanket, the massive threat looming ominously in the background, and officially its units were kept up to modern standards by rotation into and out of active service. In fact, that wasn't happening, because . . . well, because the Invincible Solarian League Navy was invincible, and no one could possibly be insane enough to challenge it.

(5) Most of the mobilization plans envisioned having a minimum of one to two T-years leadtime. It would have taken that long simply to spin up the needed personnel, and that was assuming that the SLN had gone to immediate crash mobilization, retraining of reservists, and training of new recruits.

(6) Most importantly, every ship of the Solarian Reserve was decades old and could not be refitted as a pod-layer. It was physically impossible to do anything of the sort, which meant that in an era of pod-launched missiles, they would have been restricted to the pods they could deploy on tractors. Even if they'd been just as tough defensively as their opposition, that would have been a crippling tactical disadvantage.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:Shouldn't a reserve of 10,000 or more ships be more valuable than the space station? Yet it seems the entire reserve were sitting ducks without any protection at all.

RFC has talked about the value of the reserve fleet and it was nowhere near the value of the Ganymede Station:

they would do their best to avoid the Sollies errors. A (partial) catalog of those errors would include:

(1) They simply hadn't done routine maintenance, hadn't cycled ships in and out of reserve status, and had made no attempt to keep onboard systems current.

(2) The ships of the Solarian Reserve Fleet had not been designed with the expectation that technology would be changing significantly. As a consequence, no one worried about "growth space" for new systems or modular installations which could be (relatively) quickly changed out for modern hardware. Replacing and updating would have required a huge investment in yard time to rip out and obsolete systems and then somehow shoehorn in more modern ones.

(3) The ships of the Reserve had old-style inertial compensators, which might have been changed out . . . assuming that the SLN had possessed newer and more efficient compensators to change out. It didn't.

(4) The SLN had never actually expected to need the Reserve. It was a sort of strategic security blanket, the massive threat looming ominously in the background, and officially its units were kept up to modern standards by rotation into and out of active service. In fact, that wasn't happening, because . . . well, because the Invincible Solarian League Navy was invincible, and no one could possibly be insane enough to challenge it.

(5) Most of the mobilization plans envisioned having a minimum of one to two T-years leadtime. It would have taken that long simply to spin up the needed personnel, and that was assuming that the SLN had gone to immediate crash mobilization, retraining of reservists, and training of new recruits.

(6) Most importantly, every ship of the Solarian Reserve was decades old and could not be refitted as a pod-layer. It was physically impossible to do anything of the sort, which meant that in an era of pod-launched missiles, they would have been restricted to the pods they could deploy on tractors. Even if they'd been just as tough defensively as their opposition, that would have been a crippling tactical disadvantage.

this is from: Reserve Fleet

cthia wrote:Shouldn't a reserve of 10,000 or more ships be more valuable than the space station? Yet it seems the entire reserve were sitting ducks without any protection at all.

cthia wrote:At any rate, doesn't space station imply... in space? On the moon isn't a space station. That is a moon station / base.

Jonathan_S wrote:Though later wording makes it sound like the Reserve fleet weren't orbiting Ganymede, but instead were spread in clumps along it's orbital track around Jupiter "the thousands of obsolescent superdreadnoughts parked in the twenty-four, equidistantly spaced clusters riding Jupiter orbit with Ganymede."

Theemile wrote:Unfortunately, cold, empty ships don't explode when hit by laser head lasers - all you do is blow holes in the ships (which might be a bit explosive in it's own right, but not that much so).

Better would be launching the missiles in Boom mode - skin contact nuclear fire. with no sidewalls and defenses to stop them, target each ship in the Reserve with 2-4 missiles and let the 100 Mton nukes claw apart each ship.