Cost of Living (US) and minimum wage

Just a thought here:


I was reading an economics book years ago, and it noted that countries which depended on second level industry (turn raw material into products as the main driver of the country tended to do worse in a recession then countries focusing on tertiary (deliver products, customer service, etc). Primary industry (collecting raw materials) tended to do about halfway between. My reading of what I hear about the US in the papers is that a large proportion of the country relied on manufacturing (detroit etc) or farming. So a part of the problem regarding unemployment may be due to the US's reliance on manufacturing jobs and farming, both of which tend to upgrade instead of hire after recessions.


just a thought.

Quite a bit of rambling but I spent 3+ hours putting it together and you really don't want to see what any of my intermediate stages looked like.

Went back and looked at your post. Fundamental flaw, I believe. You are using per capita numbers. Never got back to rereading that post. My apologies for the not doing so. Still don't understand all of the points <shrug>.

2010 numbers
Mississippi (50th ranked)
Per capita income $19,977
Median household income $37,881
Median family income $47,031
Population 2,967,297
Number of households 1,115,768

From the July 2011 US employment report. Which gives July 2010 numbers. Just the people 16 and up employed was 58.4%. So divide the per capita by that $34,207. Just a ball park for each gives a average wage of ~$17 that is for the worst state. Not sure even how to figure is the non working age people that job report only listed 238 million in the civilian labor force but the US was around 300 million then. So the actual number is probably around 20% higher. Just numbers I have on my computer not worth looking up on my cheap dialup($11).

Like it really matters, what does it cost. A house in Manhattan costs the same as a house in Mississippi, well no. The cost of living in Ely, NV has different factors than someone is South Florida. Or the cost of living in a boom town like say Wadford City, ND. All of these places I have visited in the past year except Manhattan (not happening, that is my version of where I will probably spend eternity). All have different economic drivers.

I can't compare to other countries out of current knowledge not going to happen, too many things in this country for me to be more than slightly interested in going back abroad. <shrug> Don't even want to go into Canada, much less Mexico and if I can't drive the bike to get there the chances go down astronomically.

To treat any and all of these things the same is incredibly stupid. Much less comparing the US to New Zealand. Or any other country. Yep the US idiots that compare them are the just as stupid. Probably more so. I remember visiting Ankara, Turkey. That was poverty, IMO. Or the idiots who posted a story back a while on the BBC site about India and poverty line should include the cost of a cell phone.

Me in Florida what do I pay for heat. My dad when he was still alive was paying more to heat that house in 1976 in one month than I do for last year's electric bill.

But I have to spend money on air conditioning, well no I don't. Spent the entire year here in 2010 (only time since I retired) the A/C has been broke for 5 years (too cheap to fix something I never use and don't need, for all I know the reset button needs to be pressed). So I guess that AC isn't really needed. Average electric bill--when I am here--around $45. That is including when the heat is on, all electric house. Average cost of groceries for me about ~$200 a month, cost of cigarettes you guessed it ~$200 dollars. My average monthly outlay about $600-700. Even when I go on my motorcyle trips, living in campgrounds and cooking over a gasoline stove less than $2k including the bills at home, gas, oil, tires, $400 for a bent front rim (long story about a rock) and what not. That was for a 4 month trip last year. Long story but if I didn't spend $~16k on cars for one of my older sisters (extremely long story) I would have saved money on my measly ~$1,700/month USN retirement.

To say that if we set the minimum wage on a federal level will make things equal ignores all those simple economic facts. Living in location "A" goes not cost the same as living in location "B".

But sure $600 billion revenue increase will balance $14 trillion deficit, people who keep saying it won't make it true. Simple facts don't go away.

Hope this post makes some sense another hour of editing a 3+ hour post and "stick a fork in me", I'm done. Should have gone back to sleep. <shrug>

Have fun,
T2M

PS Ely is a neat place near a wonderful state park with great hiking and an old locomotive engine house that they let you just wander around in. Something like 10 steam engines 2 or 3 that still work as well as a couple of diesels. But if the tire on the bike is worn out the local dealer won't have it in stock. Ended up ordering it while I was in Utah near Zion National Park (shudders) stay from it Snow Canyon State park is more people friendly with better hiking, IMO.

[quote="Spacekiwi"]Is it ok if i break it down?
Maybe so, but from the figures i calculated, using US Gov data showed that the average wage wasn't that far off the min wage, and when converted to other currencies, was far lower then their minimum wage levels.
[quote]

And after I put all that together I remembered this link. A more detailed current look.

http://www.stats.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_ms.htm#00-0000

Not all that smart but it was kind of neat my number from the previous post was sort of in the ball park. <shrug>

If you really want to have fun the same thing is available for every state. Bureaucracies have some uses.

Edit for Washington.
http://www.stats.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_wa.htm

Have fun,
T2M

Second Edit: Thank you SpaceKiwi for making me think and defend my opinions.

Also kind of neat that an OB/GYN makes more money than a CEO in the state of Washington. <chuckle> Like 20% more at the mean.<out right laugh>

to tired to even think coherently at the moment sorry. will give a better reply tomorrow, which will probably appear before you go to bed..... (embarrassed grin)

thinkstoomuch wrote:To say that if we set the minimum wage on a federal level will make things equal ignores all those simple economic facts. Living in location "A" goes not cost the same as living in location "B".

It's not just location that makes a difference in required income, but also lifestyle - it sounds like you've got a fairly simple lifestyle that gives you the luxuries you're interested in cheaply, rather than constantly chasing after the latest designer iPod etc.

One classic tabloid "evil scroungers" image is the trailer-park with large satellite dishes on each residence for their satellite TV subscriptions - if satellite TV is viewed as a necessity rather than a luxury, the minimum livable household income climbs...

Freely admit that I am a CHEAP B*****D. But did you notice I bought one of my sisters 2 different cars (with cash so they were in her name). Personally conservative as well. Why do I need something to replace something that does what I need? Keep up with the Joneses, saw enough of that in US Navy housing. Just about the height of stupidity.

But the point remains. What you appear to be advocating is a Cost of Comfort, not a Cost of Living.

Enjoy,
T2M

PS I did have a bunch of other stuff in here decided it meandered way too much, so I deleted it. Though I wish I could get one of the neighborhood kids to cut the grass when I am gone for the summer but apparently an hour less actually (lawn care service takes 5 min) is too much work around here.

rmsgrey wrote:It's not just location that makes a difference in required income, but also lifestyle - it sounds like you've got a fairly simple lifestyle that gives you the luxuries you're interested in cheaply, rather than constantly chasing after the latest designer iPod etc.

One classic tabloid "evil scroungers" image is the trailer-park with large satellite dishes on each residence for their satellite TV subscriptions - if satellite TV is viewed as a necessity rather than a luxury, the minimum livable household income climbs...

Hi guys

My first job was as a student and I worked (full time) for three months, as a junior on a geological exploration party, in the bush, for about ten hours a day, seven days a week, during the summer of 1953.

I was paid $125.00 per month - - and had no side benefits.

R

PS.
And I was really really pleased to get the job !!

Though raising the minimum wage is broadly popular, does it hurt the economy? Apparently, Costco's CEO, in a move unlike most retailers, says he would want to see the federal minimum wage increased to $10.10 an hour. That is even higher than the $9 an hour President Obama requested in his State of the Union address.

brylemartin12 wrote:Though raising the minimum wage is broadly popular, does it hurt the economy? Apparently, Costco's CEO, in a move unlike most retailers, says he would want to see the federal minimum wage increased to $10.10 an hour. That is even higher than the $9 an hour President Obama requested in his State of the Union address.

The problem is that the majority of CEOs in this country aren't like Costco's. They would move every job they could to China and current regulations make it very easy for them to do so. In spite of what the politicians are claiming we have a poor economy now so when people are laid off, they can't just go down the street and get another job. And not every minimum wage business is like McDonald's, many of them are barely squeaking by as it is. If the minimum wage increases those companies will close and the poor people who work for them will be in an even worse position than they are now.

Therefore I am STRONGLY opposed to a minimum wage increase until:

1. Regulations are changed to make it much more difficult for companies to outsource jobs to low wage countries.

2. The economy improves so that there are jobs available for people whose companies reduce staffing or close due to the higher minimum wage.

biochem wrote:

brylemartin12 wrote:Though raising the minimum wage is broadly popular, does it hurt the economy? Apparently, Costco's CEO, in a move unlike most retailers, says he would want to see the federal minimum wage increased to $10.10 an hour. That is even higher than the $9 an hour President Obama requested in his State of the Union address.

The problem is that the majority of CEOs in this country aren't like Costco's. They would move every job they could to China and current regulations make it very easy for them to do so. In spite of what the politicians are claiming we have a poor economy now so when people are laid off, they can't just go down the street and get another job. And not every minimum wage business is like McDonald's, many of them are barely squeaking by as it is. If the minimum wage increases those companies will close and the poor people who work for them will be in an even worse position than they are now.

Therefore I am STRONGLY opposed to a minimum wage increase until:

1. Regulations are changed to make it much more difficult for companies to outsource jobs to low wage countries.

2. The economy improves so that there are jobs available for people whose companies reduce staffing or close due to the higher minimum wage.

Every time I see or hear the concept that raising the minimum wage hurts people or raises prices or reduces employment, I ask if it has happened in the past when we've raised minimum wage.

As far as I understand, with my poor otter brain, it hasn't. Further, if I recall correctly, adjusted for inflation (and not even purchasing power), the current minimum wage is under what it has been.

http://www.raisetheminimumwage.com/fact ... inflation/ Dug up this source. Looks like in constant 2013 dollars, the Federal minimum wage today is equivalent to 1985.